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	<title>Comments on: Shuttleworth on Project Management</title>
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		<title>By: Project Management</title>
		<link>http://molecularvoices.molecular.com/2008/shuttleworth-on-project-management/comment-page-1/#comment-6844</link>
		<dc:creator>Project Management</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://molecularvoices.molecular.com/?p=619#comment-6844</guid>
		<description>This article information is useful for all project managers.Great post</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-mailto+http:sha1:111a3705bec086eb1f3bbf4f2ca88308472e9867'>This article information is useful for all project managers.Great post</div>
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		<title>By: Jim Lamoureaux</title>
		<link>http://molecularvoices.molecular.com/2008/shuttleworth-on-project-management/comment-page-1/#comment-4405</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Lamoureaux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://molecularvoices.molecular.com/?p=619#comment-4405</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s another pertinent article prescribing a set of approaches to version control and release management: http://www.infoq.com/articles/agile-version-control.  The ongoing example in the article takes the approach that the trunk should be only _releasable_ code.  Of course, there are other definitions of &quot;Done&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-mailto+http:sha1:d258ee9a22c29c5891fc9d990eaa4f966c071f61'>Here&#8217;s another pertinent article prescribing a set of approaches to version control and release management: <a href="http://www.infoq.com/articles/agile-version-control" rel="nofollow">http://www.infoq.com/articles/agile-version-control</a>.  The ongoing example in the article takes the approach that the trunk should be only _releasable_ code.  Of course, there are other definitions of &#8220;Done&#8221;.</div>
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		<title>By: Adam Stachelek</title>
		<link>http://molecularvoices.molecular.com/2008/shuttleworth-on-project-management/comment-page-1/#comment-3392</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Stachelek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://molecularvoices.molecular.com/?p=619#comment-3392</guid>
		<description>Interestingly, or perhaps not, I asked this question on the 37signals live video session today, and they essentially agreed 100% with your assessment about GUI testing.  The philosophy they described was a very practical one, though often hard to justify when you&#039;re in crunch mode on a project: If developing an automated test and its associated level of effort outweighs the corresponding frustration or risk that is being experienced in that part of the codebase, do it.  Otherwise, don&#039;t.  Easier said than done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-mailto+http:sha1:d8953bb56c437d117ca16ef122dad385f99c5c7c'>Interestingly, or perhaps not, I asked this question on the 37signals live video session today, and they essentially agreed 100% with your assessment about GUI testing.  The philosophy they described was a very practical one, though often hard to justify when you&#8217;re in crunch mode on a project: If developing an automated test and its associated level of effort outweighs the corresponding frustration or risk that is being experienced in that part of the codebase, do it.  Otherwise, don&#8217;t.  Easier said than done.</div>
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		<title>By: Craig Andrews</title>
		<link>http://molecularvoices.molecular.com/2008/shuttleworth-on-project-management/comment-page-1/#comment-3390</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Andrews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://molecularvoices.molecular.com/?p=619#comment-3390</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the reply, Adam.
I&#039;ve never been a big fan of UI testing - it seems to be a huge time sync with minimal return in the case of most of the projects that Molecular does where the UI is constantly in flux.
I usually don&#039;t see unit testing as a form of &quot;documentation&quot; for API changes, but I suppose that is another really useful way to look at it - and I&#039;ll definitely be bringing that up in future conversations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-mailto+http:sha1:e00ab8fe061536d30a40a45393a65454b0dddb80'>Thanks for the reply, Adam.<br />
I&#8217;ve never been a big fan of UI testing &#8211; it seems to be a huge time sync with minimal return in the case of most of the projects that Molecular does where the UI is constantly in flux.<br />
I usually don&#8217;t see unit testing as a form of &#8220;documentation&#8221; for API changes, but I suppose that is another really useful way to look at it &#8211; and I&#8217;ll definitely be bringing that up in future conversations.</div>
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		<title>By: Adam Stachelek</title>
		<link>http://molecularvoices.molecular.com/2008/shuttleworth-on-project-management/comment-page-1/#comment-3355</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Stachelek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://molecularvoices.molecular.com/?p=619#comment-3355</guid>
		<description>That’s a great link. 

I’ve been working with a client (I’m a contractor) that subscribes to this principle fairly rigorously.  Though I don’t have full visibility as to how it’s working, in my experience, they’ve spent more time in unit tests than they have in adding functionality, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing.  They aim for 80% coverage which is in line with the 70% standard you emailed about before and I think that is a very good idea, since, in their case, they use unit tests not only for coverage and regression, but as a method of communicating API changes.  You won’t really get an email or notification about an API change (unless you sit there watching SVN commits religiously) until your code breaks with the latest svn update.  It’s an interesting approach, and can be a bit harsh, but if you have good code coverage, it’ll ensure that all your interactions with that API are updated.

Now automated UI testing is another animal all together.  I think it’s hard to maintain automated scripts when a UI is constantly in flux, but the concept of code coverage to highlight incompatibility with a changing API could be applied for some basic automated UI testing to the same effect that a business layer might make use of such test.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-mailto+http:sha1:d8953bb56c437d117ca16ef122dad385f99c5c7c'>That’s a great link. </p>
<p>I’ve been working with a client (I’m a contractor) that subscribes to this principle fairly rigorously.  Though I don’t have full visibility as to how it’s working, in my experience, they’ve spent more time in unit tests than they have in adding functionality, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing.  They aim for 80% coverage which is in line with the 70% standard you emailed about before and I think that is a very good idea, since, in their case, they use unit tests not only for coverage and regression, but as a method of communicating API changes.  You won’t really get an email or notification about an API change (unless you sit there watching SVN commits religiously) until your code breaks with the latest svn update.  It’s an interesting approach, and can be a bit harsh, but if you have good code coverage, it’ll ensure that all your interactions with that API are updated.</p>
<p>Now automated UI testing is another animal all together.  I think it’s hard to maintain automated scripts when a UI is constantly in flux, but the concept of code coverage to highlight incompatibility with a changing API could be applied for some basic automated UI testing to the same effect that a business layer might make use of such test.</p></div>
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		<title>By: Shuttleworth on Project Management</title>
		<link>http://molecularvoices.molecular.com/2008/shuttleworth-on-project-management/comment-page-1/#comment-3295</link>
		<dc:creator>Shuttleworth on Project Management</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://molecularvoices.molecular.com/?p=619#comment-3295</guid>
		<description>[...] Go to the author&#8217;s original blog: Shuttleworth on Project Management [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-http+http:sha1:b95511e94f8b3ca95d852cdd12fcbf6e72db76c0'>[...] Go to the author&#8217;s original blog: Shuttleworth on Project Management [...]</div>
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